The Round Table (Rational Pagans Forum)

Science & The Supernatural: A Discussion of the World Around us - Based on Science with an Interest in the Supernatural ...
It is currently 24 Sep 2017, 17:55

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Please note: Discussion here should be relatively civil. Attack the post, not the poster. Thanks!



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2010, 15:17 
Offline
Adherent

Joined: 24 Mar 2010, 15:01
Posts: 94
Who should forgive? God or us?

Much has been written on repentance and how one must seek forgiveness and repent to gain heaven.

Sin should always has a victim or someone hurt, if you will, by the sin.

It is healthy for a victim to eventually have closure on the issue and forgive.
It is also morally healthy for the sinner to repent and seek forgiveness.

If both the sinner and victim see this and the victim forgives and the sinner repents to the victim, then what does God have to do with the issue?
He is a third party and irrelevant of the particular sin in question.
God was not sinned against and even if you think He is somehow offended then it is His problem for taking offence because one human sinned against another human.

Whose forgiveness is more important?
God’s or the victims?

If the victim does not choose to forgive, does God have any business usurping this benefit from the victim?

If a sinner is forgiven by his victim but is a non believer, does God still hold this, now forgiven sin, against the non believer who, for all we know, has no other sins?

That would seem to be unjust.

Further, Jesus says, only through me, as the path to heaven. This seems to retire the Father and Holy spirit and make them irrelevant to us. This is strange in light of Jesus’ words that say no one is good except God the Father.

Thoughts.

Regards
DL


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2010, 07:11 
Offline
Neighbor of the Beast

Joined: 03 Nov 2007, 09:17
Posts: 667
Sin, I believe, is intended to refer to an act that is abhorrent to "God". I personally believe that the concept of sin was created to cajole anti-social persons into conforming to a societal norm.

To Christian persons, as I understand it, if the sin is committed against another mortal and the whole forgiveness thing is dealt with in that mortal's life, then they are forgiven by "God" as well, I think. On the other hand, if the sinner does not repent, even if forgiven by the victim, they must still face the wrath of "God". And there are sins that are against god, so can only be forgiven by "him/her/it".

The victim's forgiveness comes back to the concept of some otherworldly paradise after mortal death. If the victim of sin does not forgive he may harbor the hateful desire for vengeance, he has sinned since vengeance is "God's" bailiwick, mostly...

Justice has nothing to do with God, Sin, or the Law. IMnsHO.

As to what Jesus said, it is amazingly handy how that little phrase can make all non-Christians and everything they believe inconsequential...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2010, 08:57 
Offline
Second-Sight Apprentice
User avatar

Joined: 21 Aug 2008, 13:41
Posts: 267
Location: West Virginia, USA
I have always understood it to be if you commit a sin against another you must be truly sorry for it. The person who was wronged does not have to forgive. Sin is against God, so if your sorry he then can forgive. If the victim does not forgive then that is between them and God. If you are sinned against you must forgive since you are forgiven. It all comes down to God forgives therefore, you have to. If your sinning you must be sorry.

But that only applies to those who have accepted Christ. The rest don't matter since they are going to Hell.

Psychologically and emotionally, forgiving has great benefit. It tends to be good for people. Whether someone asks to be or not.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2010, 11:02 
Offline
Adherent

Joined: 24 Mar 2010, 15:01
Posts: 94
willynilly wrote:
I have always understood it to be if you commit a sin against another you must be truly sorry for it. The person who was wronged does not have to forgive. Sin is against God, so if your sorry he then can forgive. If the victim does not forgive then that is between them and God. If you are sinned against you must forgive since you are forgiven. It all comes down to God forgives therefore, you have to. If your sinning you must be sorry.

But that only applies to those who have accepted Christ. The rest don't matter since they are going to Hell.

Psychologically and emotionally, forgiving has great benefit. It tends to be good for people. Whether someone asks to be or not.


I agree completely with your last.

As to sinning against God.

If I steal your shoes, does God go barefoot?

I kind of like that idea.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2010, 11:04 
Offline
Adherent

Joined: 24 Mar 2010, 15:01
Posts: 94
HavenMage wrote:
Sin, I believe, is intended to refer to an act that is abhorrent to "God". I personally believe that the concept of sin was created to cajole anti-social persons into conforming to a societal norm.

To Christian persons, as I understand it, if the sin is committed against another mortal and the whole forgiveness thing is dealt with in that mortal's life, then they are forgiven by "God" as well, I think. On the other hand, if the sinner does not repent, even if forgiven by the victim, they must still face the wrath of "God". And there are sins that are against god, so can only be forgiven by "him/her/it".

The victim's forgiveness comes back to the concept of some otherworldly paradise after mortal death. If the victim of sin does not forgive he may harbor the hateful desire for vengeance, he has sinned since vengeance is "God's" bailiwick, mostly...

Justice has nothing to do with God, Sin, or the Law. IMnsHO.

As to what Jesus said, it is amazingly handy how that little phrase can make all non-Christians and everything they believe inconsequential...


Archetypes have a way of doing that for sure.
At least to foolish believers.

Regards
DL


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2010, 04:19 
Offline
The Power to Scry
User avatar

Joined: 05 Dec 2009, 05:45
Posts: 803
Location: My house
willynilly wrote:
I have always understood it to be if you commit a sin against another you must be truly sorry for it. The person who was wronged does not have to forgive. Sin is against God, so if your sorry he then can forgive. If the victim does not forgive then that is between them and God. If you are sinned against you must forgive since you are forgiven. It all comes down to God forgives therefore, you have to. If your sinning you must be sorry.

But that only applies to those who have accepted Christ. The rest don't matter since they are going to Hell.

Psychologically and emotionally, forgiving has great benefit. It tends to be good for people. Whether someone asks to be or not.


Actually one modification, not in all Christian religions are we all going to hell, although frankly all the best people are there so meh. *Shamelessly plagiarises Mark twain*

"Go to heaven for the weather, hell for the company."

Amongst others.

@ Greatest I am, God doesn't need shoes he is without humanly discernible form, although Jesus might of.

I prefer the Eastern Orthodox view that sins that aren't trivial leave you apostate until they are resolved, makes more sense to exclude the unrepentant from a religion on Earth as well instead of just in the after life.

Quote:
Further, Jesus says, only through me, as the path to heaven. This seems to retire the Father and Holy spirit and make them irrelevant to us. This is strange in light of Jesus’ words that say no one is good except God the Father.


I'd dispute anyone ever said anything remotely like this, and the source documents are dubiously questionable at best. The earliest source documents usually don't have any of the magic and damnation of the later texts though. And are thus more boring and less useful in the propaganda war for hearts and minds by the fledgling church.

The issue of the triune, is an issue of such magnitude that it was one of the reasons for the first Schism of the church into Eastern Orthodoxy (Byzantine Eastwards) and Roman Catholicism (Holy Roman Empire). Some thought he was like wine and water seperate and yet one and the same, others though they were distinct entities, but such matters were hardly trivial. Either way though only through God can you get to heaven, be that through Jesus or God is semantics, and has no relevance to dogmatic concerns, as they are one and the same.

_________________
May the road rise up
To meet you
May the wind be always
At your back
May the sun shine warm
upon your face
May the rain fall soft
upon your field,
And until we meet again.
May God hold you in the palm of his hand.


"I apologise... For nothing!"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2010, 07:38 
Offline
Adherent

Joined: 24 Mar 2010, 15:01
Posts: 94
The Dagda wrote:
willynilly wrote:
I have always understood it to be if you commit a sin against another you must be truly sorry for it. The person who was wronged does not have to forgive. Sin is against God, so if your sorry he then can forgive. If the victim does not forgive then that is between them and God. If you are sinned against you must forgive since you are forgiven. It all comes down to God forgives therefore, you have to. If your sinning you must be sorry.

But that only applies to those who have accepted Christ. The rest don't matter since they are going to Hell.

Psychologically and emotionally, forgiving has great benefit. It tends to be good for people. Whether someone asks to be or not.


Actually one modification, not in all Christian religions are we all going to hell, although frankly all the best people are there so meh. *Shamelessly plagiarises Mark twain*

"Go to heaven for the weather, hell for the company."

Amongst others.

@ Greatest I am, God doesn't need shoes he is without humanly discernible form, although Jesus might of.

I prefer the Eastern Orthodox view that sins that aren't trivial leave you apostate until they are resolved, makes more sense to exclude the unrepentant from a religion on Earth as well instead of just in the after life.

Quote:
Further, Jesus says, only through me, as the path to heaven. This seems to retire the Father and Holy spirit and make them irrelevant to us. This is strange in light of Jesus’ words that say no one is good except God the Father.


I'd dispute anyone ever said anything remotely like this, and the source documents are dubiously questionable at best. The earliest source documents usually don't have any of the magic and damnation of the later texts though. And are thus more boring and less useful in the propaganda war for hearts and minds by the fledgling church.

The issue of the triune, is an issue of such magnitude that it was one of the reasons for the first Schism of the church into Eastern Orthodoxy (Byzantine Eastwards) and Roman Catholicism (Holy Roman Empire). Some thought he was like wine and water seperate and yet one and the same, others though they were distinct entities, but such matters were hardly trivial. Either way though only through God can you get to heaven, be that through Jesus or God is semantics, and has no relevance to dogmatic concerns, as they are one and the same.


So dagma then would say that God can die. Wow.

Regards
DL


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2010, 13:33 
Offline
The Power to Scry
User avatar

Joined: 05 Dec 2009, 05:45
Posts: 803
Location: My house
Greatest I am wrote:
The Dagda wrote:
willynilly wrote:
I have always understood it to be if you commit a sin against another you must be truly sorry for it. The person who was wronged does not have to forgive. Sin is against God, so if your sorry he then can forgive. If the victim does not forgive then that is between them and God. If you are sinned against you must forgive since you are forgiven. It all comes down to God forgives therefore, you have to. If your sinning you must be sorry.

But that only applies to those who have accepted Christ. The rest don't matter since they are going to Hell.

Psychologically and emotionally, forgiving has great benefit. It tends to be good for people. Whether someone asks to be or not.


Actually one modification, not in all Christian religions are we all going to hell, although frankly all the best people are there so meh. *Shamelessly plagiarises Mark twain*

"Go to heaven for the weather, hell for the company."

Amongst others.

@ Greatest I am, God doesn't need shoes he is without humanly discernible form, although Jesus might of.

I prefer the Eastern Orthodox view that sins that aren't trivial leave you apostate until they are resolved, makes more sense to exclude the unrepentant from a religion on Earth as well instead of just in the after life.

Quote:
Further, Jesus says, only through me, as the path to heaven. This seems to retire the Father and Holy spirit and make them irrelevant to us. This is strange in light of Jesus’ words that say no one is good except God the Father.


I'd dispute anyone ever said anything remotely like this, and the source documents are dubiously questionable at best. The earliest source documents usually don't have any of the magic and damnation of the later texts though. And are thus more boring and less useful in the propaganda war for hearts and minds by the fledgling church.

The issue of the triune, is an issue of such magnitude that it was one of the reasons for the first Schism of the church into Eastern Orthodoxy (Byzantine Eastwards) and Roman Catholicism (Holy Roman Empire). Some thought he was like wine and water seperate and yet one and the same, others though they were distinct entities, but such matters were hardly trivial. Either way though only through God can you get to heaven, be that through Jesus or God is semantics, and has no relevance to dogmatic concerns, as they are one and the same.


So dagma then would say that God can die. Wow.

Regards
DL


You have a habit of taking what I say and just making something up I didn't remotely even mean. No God can't die, he is immortal.

_________________
May the road rise up
To meet you
May the wind be always
At your back
May the sun shine warm
upon your face
May the rain fall soft
upon your field,
And until we meet again.
May God hold you in the palm of his hand.


"I apologise... For nothing!"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2010, 15:20 
Offline
Adherent

Joined: 24 Mar 2010, 15:01
Posts: 94
The Dagda wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
The Dagda wrote:
willynilly wrote:
Regards
DL


You have a habit of taking what I say and just making something up I didn't remotely even mean. No God can't die, he is immortal.


Must be how I read what you write or the way I read.

If God/Jesus cannot die, then there was no vicarious sacrifice or atonement then.

Right?

Regards
DL


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2010, 12:53 
Offline
The Power to Scry
User avatar

Joined: 05 Dec 2009, 05:45
Posts: 803
Location: My house
Greatest I am wrote:
The Dagda wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
The Dagda wrote:
willynilly wrote:
Regards
DL


You have a habit of taking what I say and just making something up I didn't remotely even mean. No God can't die, he is immortal.


Must be how I read what you write or the way I read.

If God/Jesus cannot die, then there was no vicarious sacrifice or atonement then.

Right?

Regards
DL


Jesus died but he was resurrected and came back to life, hence he is immortal.

_________________
May the road rise up
To meet you
May the wind be always
At your back
May the sun shine warm
upon your face
May the rain fall soft
upon your field,
And until we meet again.
May God hold you in the palm of his hand.


"I apologise... For nothing!"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2010, 20:13 
Offline
Adherent

Joined: 24 Mar 2010, 15:01
Posts: 94
The Dagda wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
The Dagda wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
The Dagda wrote:
willynilly wrote:
Regards
DL


You have a habit of taking what I say and just making something up I didn't remotely even mean. No God can't die, he is immortal.


Must be how I read what you write or the way I read.

If God/Jesus cannot die, then there was no vicarious sacrifice or atonement then.

Right?

Regards
DL


Jesus died but he was resurrected and came back to life, hence he is immortal.


Really?
Other than hear say or Bible say, how do you know for sure?

So you have bought into fantasy after all.
Talking animals and water walking, the whole bit or what?

Regards
DL


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2010, 08:45 
Offline
The Power to Scry
User avatar

Joined: 05 Dec 2009, 05:45
Posts: 803
Location: My house
Greatest I am wrote:
The Dagda wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
The Dagda wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
The Dagda wrote:
willynilly wrote:
Regards
DL


You have a habit of taking what I say and just making something up I didn't remotely even mean. No God can't die, he is immortal.


Must be how I read what you write or the way I read.

If God/Jesus cannot die, then there was no vicarious sacrifice or atonement then.

Right?

Regards
DL


Jesus died but he was resurrected and came back to life, hence he is immortal.


Really?
Other than hear say or Bible say, how do you know for sure?

So you have bought into fantasy after all.
Talking animals and water walking, the whole bit or what?

Regards
DL


Oh no you've caught me out! ;)

I'm relating Christian dogma not matters of fact. :cheeky:

Please tell me you didn't think I was trying to preach my religion, I would of thought you would, after being told I am not a Christian on several occasions, have realised by now I am not in fact religious at all. If you want to attack Christian people for their genuinely held beliefs, perhaps you chose the wrong sort of site. :)

_________________
May the road rise up
To meet you
May the wind be always
At your back
May the sun shine warm
upon your face
May the rain fall soft
upon your field,
And until we meet again.
May God hold you in the palm of his hand.


"I apologise... For nothing!"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2010, 10:40 
Offline
Adherent

Joined: 24 Mar 2010, 15:01
Posts: 94
The Dagda wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
The Dagda wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
The Dagda wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
The Dagda wrote:
willynilly wrote:
Regards
DL


You have a habit of taking what I say and just making something up I didn't remotely even mean. No God can't die, he is immortal.


Must be how I read what you write or the way I read.

If God/Jesus cannot die, then there was no vicarious sacrifice or atonement then.

Right?

Regards
DL


Jesus died but he was resurrected and came back to life, hence he is immortal.


Really?
Other than hear say or Bible say, how do you know for sure?

So you have bought into fantasy after all.
Talking animals and water walking, the whole bit or what?

Regards
DL


Oh no you've caught me out! ;)

I'm relating Christian dogma not matters of fact. :cheeky:

Please tell me you didn't think I was trying to preach my religion, I would of thought you would, after being told I am not a Christian on several occasions, have realised by now I am not in fact religious at all. If you w
nt to attack Christian people for their genuinely held beliefs, perhaps you chose the wrong sort of site. :)


You may be right. Time will tell.

Regards
DL


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 20:47 
Offline
First Circle Initiate

Joined: 27 Mar 2017, 03:16
Posts: 173
<P>force dwyane wade jersey of hollister kids the coach store online Red timberwolves jersey Army's long champ security, armani shoes outlet at michael kors outlet online the expense packers nfl jersey of huarache local interests tommy hilfiger alone. longchamp Take the leadership valentino of ralph lauren outlet our chiefs nfl jersey long michael kors outlet march, philadelphia 76ers jerseys the nike air force leading hilfiger outlet cadres christian louboutin shoes must handbags outlet strengthen ralph lauren outlet online the ralph lauren uk politicawareness, jordan jerseys the air max 90 overall situation, phoenix suns the core consciousness, oakley vault sense of givenchy handbags consciousness, consciously softball bats ideological chrome hearts store action on the denver nuggets jersey party with cheap true religion the party to nfl jerseys maintain a burberry handbags outlet high ralph lauren outlet degree swarovski jewelry of consistency, the majority swarovski of boston celtics party tn pas cher members thomas sabo should consciously asics do timberland outlet communism air max lofty Ideals and polo ralph lauren the adidas online common jerseys from china ideals of kate spade bags socialism with longchamp Chinese jordan characteristics, discount shoes faithful nike free practitioners, burberry sale so coach purses factory that tommy hilfiger our north face party north face jackets is more coach handbags outlet united replica rolex and ray ban sunglasses outlet strong. michael kors handbags Rooted omega watches people pandora uk fertile soil, nba jerseys blooming revival bengals nfl jersey Fanghua. On the way roshe to the long march, along burberry handbags outlet the cheap ray ban masses kevin durant jersey for rams nfl jersey the lunette oakley Red Army salomon fund-raising, adidas cooking water, collecting nike air max intelligence, burberry outlet rescue cheap mlb jerseys the air max wounded, chaussure timberland to provide military louboutin uk sources. new balance It can steelers nfl jersey be burberry handbags said michael kors that ipad mini cases a history pacers jersey of michael kors the Red vikings nfl jersey Army ecco outlet online Long nike March burberry sale is patriots nfl jersey a marc jacobs vivid michael kors taschen history tommy hilfiger that reflects ferragamo shoes the swarovski online ecology of kids hoodies the military kings jersey and dsquared2 jeans the people. new balance outlet In fact, soccer shoes with the people all puma sneakers the hugo boss clothes way hilfiger online shop counterparts in nike roshe the coach outlet canada 95 knockoff handbags years beats by dr dre of barbour outlet online magnificent history lacoste outlet online of north face outlet the cheap mlb jerseys Communist Party of ralph lauren polos China pandora schmuck continue to lunette ray ban grow and develop, hollisterco and now cheap oakley sunglasses has longchamp outlet since supra shoes the coach outlet establishment of roshe runs dozens of coach outlet online party cheap oakley members coach outlet online developed horloges into oakley black friday more than max shoes 8800 fidget spinner million nike shoes outlet members of coach factory outlet online the world's nike outlet most reebok powerful raptors jersey ruling north face backpacks party. Winning burberry the kate spade outlet online "thirteen michael kors five", should adhere to ray ban the people as the true religion jeans women center. polo ralph lauren Xi Jinping, roshe run general longchamp outlet secretary clearly philipp plein clothing pointed out that the air jordan shoes long watches canada march is always on mont blanc the nba jersey road. The mcm handbags spirit of the Long converse March ray ban sonnenbrillen embodies vans shoes the longchamp handbags fine 49ers nfl jersey traditions nike canada and styles of new balance shoes the Party michael kors outlet online and atlanta hawks jersey the ray ban outlet Red tory burch shoes Army. It coach handbags is beats audio a comprehensive giuseppe shoes display of beats by dr dre the Chinese people's ferragamo world outlook, celine bags outlook jaguars nfl jersey on louboutin life michael kors and air max values, adidas and a air force valuable nike air huarache spiritual nike wealth ray ban black friday of red bottoms the pandora Chinese juicy couture nation. With nike air max this spirit, lions nfl jersey there cheap clothes is nothing basketball shoes to eagles nfl jersey overcome buccaneers nfl jersey the difficulties, we fossil uhren are fully confident nike air max 2014 that san antonio spurs jersey there is determination ralph lauren online shop to louboutin outlet persevere raiders nfl jersey in pandora jewelry the oakley sunglasses cheap great rejuvenation of oakley the Chinese oakley sunglasses outlet nation chi hair to nike air yeezy achieve the cheap oakley sunglasses Chinese nike roshe dream. nike Cherish katespade the ferragamo shoes memory of michael kors outlet online sale the oakley sunglasses martyrs. bucks jersey Today is the "two cheap jerseys hundred years" mcm bags to achieve fake rolex the http://www.nba-shoes.com/ goal of the new grizzlies jersey long handbags outlet march, coach store outlet our ray ban outlet generation must salvatore ferragamo carry giants nfl jersey forward michael kors the bills nfl jersey spirit of the Long coach outlet sale March, kate spade outlet online take oakley our generation puma online of nike outlet long road, build ray ban outlet a nba jersey national revival aktienkurse adidas dream.Carry new balance canada forward designer handbags the composition of cheap jerseys the charlotte hornets jerseys Long ralph lauren outlet online MarchFrom babyliss pro 1930 jordans onwards, hilfiger outlet Chiang new orleans pelicans Kai-shek swarovski crystal mobilized the coach black friday army polo ralph on the michael kors central burberry revolutionary ralph lauren base hermes bags for north face four consecutive barbour jackets "encirclement iphone 5 cases and supra footwear suppression", ralph lauren polo but cowboys nfl jersey failed ralph lauren in hogan outlet the under armour curry end. mbt mens shoes In jets nfl jersey the golden state warriors jerseys autumn wizards jersey of 1933, versace clothes the indoor soccer shoes Red Army organized barbour jackets the fifth ray-ban sunglasses "anti-encirclement air max 90 and prada shoes suppression". plein outlet As jordans the saints nfl jersey CCP's interim ray ban outlet online center hollister co completely michael kors handbags abandoned Mao dolphins nfl jersey Zedong's azcardinals nfl jersey military nike shoes line, and ray ban insisted on carrying coach store out burberry outlet store Wang coach factory Ming's "leftist" wrong nike free run claim, the cheap barbour jackets fifth "anti-encirclement converse shoes and ed hardy suppression" failed. levi's jeans In October nike tracksuits 1934, more than michael kors outlet 80,000 people from the Central red bottom shoes Committee kobe bryant jerseys of the Communist Party ray ban sunglasses outlet of hermes China (CPC) and broncos nfl jersey the Central Red true religion jeans men Army vans were forced timberland shoes to browns nfl jersey leave hollister the oakley Central adidas Revolutionary marc jacobs Base nike.com and jazz jersey began the Long new balance March. adidas canada Zunyi meeting, pandora under the jimmy choo shoes leadership of ray ban Mao Zedong, air jordans the hogan women shoes Red baseball bats Army to overcome oakley sunglasses the dilemma, nike Chiang bottega veneta Kai-shek's oakley sunglasses outlet military besieged, but dallas mavericks jerseys also michael kors black friday can michael kors canada not ray ban wayfarer stop cheap true religion the adidas outlet Red Army's road fendi bags course, titans nfl jersey on wedding dresses the contrary, cheap nhl jerseys they are thomas sabo more and more courageous converse ... ... ralph lauren 1936 October, the cheap michael kors Red true religion Army polo ralph lauren outlet victory trail blazers jersey arrived christian louboutin in omega northern oakley canada Shaanxi, The oakley sunglasses outlet victory cheap nike shoes of the Long March polo ralph lauren outlet online victory ray ban over. juicy couture outlet The victory nike air huarache of hollisterco the Long swarovski jewelry March rolex replica not northface only prada sunglasses shattered cheap oakley sunglasses the ray bans plot of barbour jackets the Kuomintang, hogan but ralph lauren online also brooklyn nets jersey made the bureau converse sneakers to turn north face the the north face outlet corner. panthers nfl jersey Yeah! The bcbg max Long cheap jerseys March michael kors purses can be bcbg max azria described hollister as a pandora charms loud and prada straightforward replica rolex hymn, it coach handbags has inspired nike air max the longchamp number of michael kors bags people cartier montres with free run lofty mizuno running ideals ralph lauren black friday to follow dre beats ... mcm handbags outlet ... nike air max the cheap nhl jerseys Long instyler March cheap jordans has burberry outlet online given people orlando magic jersey how bears nfl jersey much shock, how nike huaraches much louboutin outlet feeling, it coach factory online makes people michael kors not vans help ralph lauren factory store the hollister revolutionary martyrs have knicks jersey a nike air max 2014 deep swarovski canada memory coach factory outlet And cheap glasses reverence. prada outlet Although five finger shoes the veneta long michael kors bags march the north face is gone, rockets jersey but burberry it is tommy hilfiger not afraid ravens nfl jersey of danger, michael kors handbags perseverance of celine black friday the dsquared2 outlet dauntless coach bags spirit hermes birkin bag is enough occhiali oakley to nike mercurial comfort longchamp black friday the ethereal prada handbags ethereal heart. true religion outlet Although air max not air max 2015 immersive eyeglasses stores to michael kors outlet online go redskins nfl jersey through that ralph lauren outlet online mighty woolrich mens jackets revolutionary years, cheap michael kors but also texans nfl jersey between the lines to air jordan retro read the long march too adidas outlet hard and difficult. Yeah! nike mercurial A nike free run 5.0 lot nike outlet store of air max one nights, ray bans I timberland boots have more chargers nfl jersey than once north face to mcm bags consider jimmy choo outlet to chew the spirit asics gel of chi flat iron the michael kors handbags Long March michael kors to mcm handbags give michael kors outlet me nike Air Max Plaza the inspiration ray ban sunglasses and rolex watches vibration. omega watches The long michael kors purses march oakley sunglasses is forging calvin klein underwear ahead and letting burberry handbags people occhiali ray ban never ralph lauren give seahawks nfl jersey up. It cavaliers jerseys tells burberry sale me nike roche run that oakley vault there is giuseppe zanotti sneakers no clippers jersey faith in faith nike and falcons nfl jersey a michael kors purses firm colts nfl jersey </P> burberry sale


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group