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Science & The Supernatural: A Discussion of the World Around us - Based on Science with an Interest in the Supernatural ...
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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2010, 08:16 
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To define God as other than a set of rules, is idol worship.

Regardless of your religion, Christian, Muslim or any other religion, have you ever wondered why people began personifying God?

Why did we start giving Him a name when the Bible begins by telling us that He is the word. Word meaning rules.

The reason to me seems clear.
Our first God was a man.
Who but man can give voice to the will/rules of God?

There is only man.

The word God should then never be personified. When we do, it becomes idol worship.
God should be considered a title only. Somewhat like king or law.
Regardless of your religion or lack of it, to tie yourself to any Word is also idol worship.
We all label ourselves according to the set of rules we follow be they Christian, Muslim, Democrat or Green.

Our political Gods = rules.
Our religious Gods = rules.
Our natural Gods = rules.
Seek God yes. When you find Him, raise the bar of excellence for both Him and man.

Whoever you are, you live by one or two or three of those sets of rules mentioned. More than likely, a combination of all of them.
In this, none of us have any choice.

My question is aimed primarily at literalist and fundamentals who believe that their WORD is the WORD of a personified God. In other words, to my mind, idol worshipers.

Do you agree and see that to lock yourself to any WORD, including a personified religious God, is idol worship?

Am I wrong in saying that our first God was a man and that our last God should be a man as well?

Regards
DL

P. S. For a bit of Biblical history and insight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L7cQ3Br ... re=related


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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2010, 07:38 
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It may be that personification occurs as a way to claim god-head for our own. Personify the concept and codify the idea to make it easier for people to believe and connect to. Thus make it easier to use the concept for such things as religion, divine-right rule etc.

Animus and totem based religions give human-like intellect to objects, plants, and animals. This makes them better understood, but making them human aggrandizes the human species even more.

Perhaps that is why it is done.

I also am led to believe that the concept of God and King were often synonymous in ancient times...


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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2010, 13:28 
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HavenMage wrote:
It may be that personification occurs as a way to claim god-head for our own. Personify the concept and codify the idea to make it easier for people to believe and connect to. Thus make it easier to use the concept for such things as religion, divine-right rule etc.

Animus and totem based religions give human-like intellect to objects, plants, and animals. This makes them better understood, but making them human aggrandizes the human species even more.

Perhaps that is why it is done.

I also am led to believe that the concept of God and King were often synonymous in ancient times...


That is why I say that our first God was a man and our last god shall be as well.

We are on the same page friend.

How wise you are. :D :D

Regards
DL


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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2010, 03:23 
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God is really a gap theory, anything we cannot understand becomes God or part of what God is or is therefore. At least historically that is the case, it probably started with ceremonial rituals revolving around nature and or death and the after life and progressed from there. To define a god any god, is merely an exploration of anthropology, history and archaeology. It is in that sense idolizing a set of cultural imperatives, I quite agree.

Literalists are delusional fanatics for the most part, Jewish, Muslim or Christian. Although literalism is pretty rare in Judaism oddly enough, ultra orthodox sects are less widespread at least.

_________________
May the road rise up
To meet you
May the wind be always
At your back
May the sun shine warm
upon your face
May the rain fall soft
upon your field,
And until we meet again.
May God hold you in the palm of his hand.


"I apologise... For nothing!"


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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2010, 14:04 
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The Dagda wrote:
God is really a gap theory, anything we cannot understand becomes God or part of what God is or is therefore. At least historically that is the case, it probably started with ceremonial rituals revolving around nature and or death and the after life and progressed from there. To define a god any god, is merely an exploration of anthropology, history and archaeology. It is in that sense idolizing a set of cultural imperatives, I quite agree.

Literalists are delusional fanatics for the most part, Jewish, Muslim or Christian. Although literalism is pretty rare in Judaism oddly enough, ultra orthodox sects are less widespread at least.


Have you ever wondered how or why the idea of a god rose up in every nation and island state even when none of them knew about each other?

Regards
DL


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2010, 04:04 
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The Power to Scry
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Greatest I am wrote:
The Dagda wrote:
God is really a gap theory, anything we cannot understand becomes God or part of what God is or is therefore. At least historically that is the case, it probably started with ceremonial rituals revolving around nature and or death and the after life and progressed from there. To define a god any god, is merely an exploration of anthropology, history and archaeology. It is in that sense idolizing a set of cultural imperatives, I quite agree.

Literalists are delusional fanatics for the most part, Jewish, Muslim or Christian. Although literalism is pretty rare in Judaism oddly enough, ultra orthodox sects are less widespread at least.


Have you ever wondered how or why the idea of a god rose up in every nation and island state even when none of them knew about each other?

Regards
DL


No not in the slightest, seems inevitable in any society that they would have questions about death, rituals to surround it and make it easier and beliefs to assuage grief. Myths about natural phenomena, to alay fear, concerns, superstitions about why and how things happened. I'd be more surprised if it didn't arise in all civilisations or cultures. It is as ubiquitous as the wheel, likewise its utility unqestionable, nor can one understate the value of social cohesion, common purpose, and social mobilisation on cultures that were often living a subsistence lifestyle. The only remarkable thing is the sheer diversity of the beliefs people made up to cope with their own mortality and ignorance of nature.

There's a tribe in the Amazon that have no concept of religion, spirits or anything remotely like that, not even of other planes of existence or realms, it would far more interesting to analyse why in their particular culture religion didn't occur In My Opinion.

Your assumption that none of them knew about each other is also a little misplaced as well, as trade networks which stretch from Africa to China to Norway and the UK are ancient to say the very least. There has always been migration and cross migration in cultures. Even Pacific and South American cultures are thought to originally have come from South of China and crossed into S America via either Island hopping or from Russia to Alaska across a stretch that at one time would of been almost an isthmus. There is good evidence that religion first arose before even humans existed in Homo Neanderthalensis. I don't doubt it would of existed amongst the earliest human cultures who much later in their history left Africa to populate the ME and later the rest of the world either.

Image
Map of early human migrations according to mitochondrial population genetics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_Afr ... ern_humans

Humans originated in Africa as long as 250-300,000 years ago, they are thought to have left Africa in any appreciable numbers about 60,000 years ago and settled in the middle east for the most part or migrated into Europe or Asia.

_________________
May the road rise up
To meet you
May the wind be always
At your back
May the sun shine warm
upon your face
May the rain fall soft
upon your field,
And until we meet again.
May God hold you in the palm of his hand.


"I apologise... For nothing!"


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2010, 08:55 
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Interesting.

I note though that the Inca did not have the wheel but did have Gods.

That aside, you are correct, the Amazon tribe you speak of does call for study. It was to date unknown to me.

Can you link me up please?

Regards
DL


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2010, 05:03 
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The Power to Scry
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Greatest I am wrote:
Interesting.

I note though that the Inca did not have the wheel but did have Gods.

That aside, you are correct, the Amazon tribe you speak of does call for study. It was to date unknown to me.

Can you link me up please?

Regards
DL


The Inca had no draft animals or no doubt they would have used the wheel, they did use rollers to transport building blocks though. The lack of utilisation of the wheel on carts etc, its a matter of pragmatism though, in fact most South American cultures did know of the concept of the wheel and artefacts have been found sporting them. Mostly it was used as a toy or in religious symbols, as it had little utility in the mountainous or jungle terrain they inhabited, where pack animals such as Al Paca or Llama were more practical than using wheeled carts which require fairly flat even roads without too many steep inclines. It's a common myth that South American cultures didn't develop the wheel though, it would be better to say they didn't use it except on toys and religious symbols as it wasn't practical. If you live in a jungle or mountain environment its not hard to see either why pack animals or just human labour was more expedient.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg1 ... guage.html

Try googling Piraha tribe that article is subscription only, so you can only get a taster. The linguist went there as a Christianity missionary but he became deconverted over a number of months.

Actually strictly speaking they have a sort of spiritual concept like animism to a very limited extent but no Gods, they also seem completely unable to learn to count and have no cardinal numbers in their language which is not unique but is unusual. It's clear however they are not genetically all that different from other tribes so it is obviously a cultural deficiency.

_________________
May the road rise up
To meet you
May the wind be always
At your back
May the sun shine warm
upon your face
May the rain fall soft
upon your field,
And until we meet again.
May God hold you in the palm of his hand.


"I apologise... For nothing!"


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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2010, 18:59 
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Joined: 24 Mar 2010, 15:01
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The Dagda wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Interesting.

I note though that the Inca did not have the wheel but did have Gods.

That aside, you are correct, the Amazon tribe you speak of does call for study. It was to date unknown to me.

Can you link me up please?

Regards
DL


The Inca had no draft animals or no doubt they would have used the wheel, they did use rollers to transport building blocks though. The lack of utilisation of the wheel on carts etc, its a matter of pragmatism though, in fact most South American cultures did know of the concept of the wheel and artefacts have been found sporting them. Mostly it was used as a toy or in religious symbols, as it had little utility in the mountainous or jungle terrain they inhabited, where pack animals such as Al Paca or Llama were more practical than using wheeled carts which require fairly flat even roads without too many steep inclines. It's a common myth that South American cultures didn't develop the wheel though, it would be better to say they didn't use it except on toys and religious symbols as it wasn't practical. If you live in a jungle or mountain environment its not hard to see either why pack animals or just human labour was more expedient.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg1 ... guage.html

Try googling Piraha tribe that article is subscription only, so you can only get a taster. The linguist went there as a Christianity missionary but he became deconverted over a number of months.

Actually strictly speaking they have a sort of spiritual concept like animism to a very limited extent but no Gods, they also seem completely unable to learn to count and have no cardinal numbers in their language which is not unique but is unusual. It's clear however they are not genetically all that different from other tribes so it is obviously a cultural deficiency.


Thanks much.
I will read on and check your link.

Regards
DL


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