The Round Table (Rational Pagans Forum)

Hi folks,

I've tried to find out if neo-paganism is pro-sensual and pro-materialism.

Not in a negative way but in a responsible way.

The more I look into Buddhism it appears to me to be anti-sensual. To be sensual is seen as something bad. Attachment to sensual pleasure they say and all attachment is seen as suffering and one should avoid suffering at all cost. The sensual is seen as materalistic which to the them is illusion. Only the spiritual exists.

So I get curious on if neo-paganism are celebrating sensual pleasures like eating food and listening to music, dancing, playing music and singing and bodily pleasures like touching oneself and others and sex and all kind of intimacy. Does Pagans hug each other or do they stand far apart and do bowing and holding hands together to show respect and all touch is seen as being attached to sensual pleasures?

Both Buddhism and Christians seems to be against abortion even of if raped and getting pregnant that way. Are Neo-Pagans also like that?

Buddhists seems to be vegetarians. Neo_Pagans allow themselves to eat meat?

Final questions. Some Christians say that Pagan's gods are material. Or material in the sense of being "natural forces" and thus material in origin.

Looking forward to all kind answers.

standard disclaimer: no two neo pagans will agree on anything!

A very quick answer--- neo pagans tend to see the world as a gift from the gods. Pleasures in it are meant to be enjoyed, short of causing others pain.

I guess, if you could picture Christianity if there was no fall from grace--- if people were still int he Garden and extolled to enjoy it. This place, here, is for some pagans, the promised land already.

Everything in it is meant to be enjoyed. Sec and food and drink are often parts of celebrations--- May Day and the summer solstice are both days sex is part of.

So, yes, neo pagans are probably pro-sensual and pro-materialistic.

I agree with Buddhism being anti sensual. But then, they view this life as something to work your way out of. Pagans do not always share that view, although some do.

There are no rules about abortion, that I am aware of. Most neo pagans are liberal, so I would see a correlation there, but not based on the religion.

Many pagans are vegetarians, and many eat meat. Again, I don't know of injunctions against killing and eating--- many feasts revolve around it--- but against wasting it.

Some Christians seem to think that if I have a statue of Hestia on my hearth, I obviously am worshiping the clay, not the concept. There is an idea that breaking the statue destroys the god. I have no clue where that could have come from--- I don't think even in India where they feed and bathe statues, they believe the clay is the deity. The clay merely is a temporary home for the deity if s/he wishes while visiting, at the most basic level, and a representation at a more common one.

_________________
Chloride and Sodium: Two terribly dangerous substances that taste great together!

Hi -- I'm a former pagan so I'll chime in.

Pagans come in many varieties since most sorts of it are not conformist or authoritarian. But for most, the senses are spiritual (as is meditation, ritual, and so on). The main rites can be taken as sexual, either symbolically, literally, or both.

Some are touchy-feely and like to hug and kiss, and some don't.

Most pagans eat meat, but some are vegan. Again, to each his/her own.

Most pagans are pro-choice -- but also "prolife" in other ways.

Most pagans don't draw a line between "natural" and "supernatural" -- all part of this universe -- although some others recognise other realms that aren't ordinarily perceived (whatever that means).

Ray

I disagree.

_________________
The Trilogy of Truth: Google, Wikipedia and YouTube.

As to materialism, one must distinguish two types:

• Metaphysical materialism
• Ethical materialism

One can believe in one of these without believing in the other.

ok, materialism for dummies, then please?

_________________
Chloride and Sodium: Two terribly dangerous substances that taste great together!

"ok, materialism for dummies, then please?"

I need to be updated on that one too.

I failed to get the explanation. Meta what? I don't do meta ever.

I am an average Joe type here so no Meta me please.

Ethical materialism as in moral behavior sounds needed.

I don't like when they smash statues cause it seems very brutal to me.

Could be contagious too, next time the destroy the guy or "guy" that set up the statue.
Salman Rushdie and such authors who make things that others love to destroy.

I mean materialism as in lay person understanding of the difference between seeing a chair as possible to sit on if not broken and not the materialism that see it as empty space with fuzzy clouds of possible wave functions swirling around unpredictably until one "look" at them intensly.

To an average person the chair is as real as the body that want to sit on it.

Hahahah the Captcha or chaptcha is so hard to get that I feel like a webbot. :D

"The confirmation code you entered was incorrect."

No it was not! I do it again. No it was not again. Damn second time if fails

lpetrich could you take sensual while you are at it too please!

I failed four times in a row to get the captcha

I hope that you can be patient with my attempts at explanation.


Wikipedia has this article on metaphysical materialism. It essentially holds that mind is not a primary substance, for lack of a better word, and that mind is a secondary feature, an emergent property. If you have ever played with construction toys when you were a little kid, you may have noticed that your constructions are assembled out of the parts that came in the toy box. So in a sense, the parts are the primary substance, while your constructions are the secondary features, the emergent properties.


I don't see how that is supposed to be the case.

Ethical materialism is what's often meant by "materialism"; it's the view that only material things are worth having.


Quantum mechanics is just plain weird, but I don't think that quantum mechanics implies that observers have any sort of magic powers. I've seen lots of "mystic physics" woo-woo that claims that quantum mechanics demonstrates that wishing will make it so.

force soccer shoes of the swarovski online Red Army's nike air max security, at the swarovski expense nike mercurial of local interests oakley sunglasses outlet alone. givenchy handbags Take the leadership of longchamp outlet our armani shoes outlet long jimmy choo shoes march, the leading cadres pandora uk must michael kors outlet online strengthen the redskins nfl jersey politicawareness, oakley vault the long champ overall situation, packers nfl jersey the hollister core consciousness, cheap nhl jerseys sense brooklyn nets jersey of nike consciousness, consciously timberwolves jersey ideological cheap ray ban action on the party with polo ralph lauren the hogan outlet party levi's jeans to maintain panthers nfl jersey a free run high wizards jersey degree nike air max of mbt mens shoes consistency, horloges the majority occhiali oakley of coach factory outlet party kids hoodies members michael kors should consciously celine bags do nike free communism michael kors bags lofty Ideals ralph lauren black friday and the nike shoes common ideals omega watches of chiefs nfl jersey socialism with Chinese north face characteristics, reebok faithful practitioners, oakley black friday so puma sneakers that our party philadelphia 76ers jerseys is adidas outlet more cheap oakley sunglasses united converse sneakers and strong. giants nfl jersey Rooted lions nfl jersey people salvatore ferragamo fertile true religion outlet soil, giuseppe shoes blooming burberry handbags revival Fanghua. mont blanc On the new balance way nike to christian louboutin the oakley sunglasses long ferragamo shoes march, along burberry handbags the michael kors handbags masses for the nike outlet store Red cheap jerseys Army fund-raising, cooking water, collecting jordan intelligence, rescue the rolex replica wounded, asics gel to ray ban sonnenbrillen provide vikings nfl jersey military nfl jerseys sources. north face It ray ban can timberland shoes be oakley sunglasses outlet said that a pandora history michael kors of the nike free run Red lunette oakley Army polo ralph lauren outlet online Long March new balance canada is under armour curry a cheap jerseys vivid burberry sale history fake rolex that salomon reflects the ecology of the azcardinals nfl jersey military and five finger shoes the plein outlet people. grizzlies jersey In prada shoes fact, adidas with atlanta hawks jersey the new balance people all michael kors the titans nfl jersey way dolphins nfl jersey counterparts cheap glasses in the coach handbags 95 michael kors years mcm bags of magnificent saints nfl jersey history ralph lauren outlet of kings jersey the chargers nfl jersey Communist hollister kids Party ralph lauren online shop of China continue to hollister grow michael kors and michael kors outlet develop, and now juicy couture outlet has tommy hilfiger since cartier montres the establishment omega of barbour jackets dozens vans shoes of party members developed timberland boots into marc jacobs more http://www.nba-shoes.com/ than ray ban sunglasses 8800 michael kors taschen million bills nfl jersey members steelers nfl jersey of bcbg max the true religion jeans men world's most powerful max shoes ruling party. timberland outlet Winning ray ban the nike huaraches "thirteen ralph lauren outlet online five", prada should dre beats adhere new balance outlet to the hollisterco people as jaguars nfl jersey the center. Xi Jinping, longchamp outlet general secretary clearly rockets jersey pointed michael kors handbags out longchamp black friday that the coach outlet canada long march pandora charms is handbags outlet always north face on oakley the road. aktienkurse adidas The north face outlet spirit of dsquared2 outlet the wedding dresses Long barbour jackets March tommy hilfiger embodies the coach handbags outlet fine thomas sabo traditions and styles ray ban of air jordan shoes the converse Party and the beats by dr dre Red nike shoes outlet Army. ray bans It coach outlet online is a chaussure timberland comprehensive hollisterco display oakley vault of nike air force the Chinese eyeglasses stores people's michael kors purses world lacoste outlet online outlook, swarovski jewelry outlook nike air max 2014 on life and bucks jersey values, nike air huarache and a valuable spiritual juicy couture wealth of fidget spinner the nike outlet Chinese nation. burberry sale With cheap clothes this spirit, new balance shoes there air max is versace clothes nothing longchamp to coach outlet sale overcome designer handbags the difficulties, seahawks nfl jersey we fendi bags are chi hair fully confident that there coach outlet online is cheap mlb jerseys determination to texans nfl jersey persevere michael kors outlet in jordan jerseys the great rejuvenation of nba jersey the nike Chinese nation cheap true religion to achieve the Chinese dsquared2 jeans dream. discount shoes Cherish jerseys from china the memory of hilfiger online shop the nike roshe martyrs. babyliss pro Today burberry handbags outlet is the burberry "two oakley hundred cavaliers jerseys years" to air max one achieve nike air yeezy the coach factory online goal michael kors of nike tracksuits the new long adidas canada march, our raptors jersey generation must carry bears nfl jersey forward the spirit hilfiger outlet of michael kors handbags the Long March, ray ban sunglasses outlet take our generation true religion of hogan long ray ban outlet road, build a national beats by dr dre revival the north face dream.Carry forward ipad mini cases the composition vans of oakley sunglasses the Long oakley MarchFrom louboutin outlet 1930 nike roche run onwards, Chiang Kai-shek mobilized the army air max 90 on the mcm handbags central hermes birkin bag revolutionary louboutin outlet base for broncos nfl jersey four mcm handbags consecutive "encirclement oakley sunglasses cheap and suppression", phoenix suns but indoor soccer shoes failed the north face outlet in the ray ban end. In roshe runs the ray ban outlet autumn of ralph lauren 1933, north face backpacks the coach store online Red coach factory Army ralph lauren outlet online organized michael kors outlet online the basketball shoes fifth "anti-encirclement and suppression". pacers jersey As kate spade outlet online the trail blazers jersey CCP's interim center rams nfl jersey completely abandoned Mao colts nfl jersey Zedong's military polo ralph line, philipp plein clothing and prada outlet insisted hermes bags on kate spade outlet online carrying roshe run out Wang ray ban wayfarer Ming's fossil uhren "leftist" calvin klein underwear wrong claim, the watches canada fifth michael kors canada "anti-encirclement northface and nike roshe suppression" beats audio failed. In orlando magic jersey October air max 90 1934, tommy hilfiger more oakley sunglasses outlet than ferragamo shoes 80,000 ralph lauren uk people from the coach store outlet Central Committee of hermes the ralph lauren factory store Communist hogan women shoes Party hollister of China christian louboutin shoes (CPC) jimmy choo outlet and the Central Red Army were supra footwear forced nike to leave 49ers nfl jersey the tn pas cher Central nike free run 5.0 Revolutionary replica rolex Base and nike began ralph lauren polos the Long air force March. cheap oakley Zunyi ferragamo meeting, thomas sabo under ralph lauren polo the leadership of coach store Mao Zedong, huarache the oakley canada Red occhiali ray ban Army polo ralph lauren to converse overcome the cheap oakley sunglasses dilemma, ecco outlet online Chiang Kai-shek's rolex watches military jets nfl jersey besieged, burberry outlet but clippers jersey also ralph lauren outlet can handbags outlet not stop golden state warriors jerseys the coach purses factory Red new orleans pelicans Army's road ray-ban sunglasses course, on the contrary, they are nike air max 2014 more eagles nfl jersey and cheap barbour jackets more dallas mavericks jerseys courageous michael kors handbags ... swarovski canada ... 1936 kate spade bags October, the Red jordans Army marc jacobs victory nike Air Max Plaza arrived in nike outlet northern Shaanxi, kevin durant jersey The raiders nfl jersey victory buccaneers nfl jersey of the north face Long March oakley sunglasses victory over. coach bags The bottega veneta victory air jordans of michael kors outlet the Long converse shoes March cheap oakley sunglasses not mcm handbags outlet only red bottom shoes shattered coach factory outlet online the plot of the Kuomintang, cheap nhl jerseys but ed hardy also made longchamp the michael kors purses bureau to cheap jordans turn ray ban black friday the louboutin uk corner. Yeah! ralph lauren outlet online The valentino Long chrome hearts store March knockoff handbags can be swarovski crystal described giuseppe zanotti sneakers as nba jerseys a baseball bats loud veneta and straightforward jazz jersey hymn, it cheap mlb jerseys has inspired coach black friday the jordans number bengals nfl jersey of pandora people longchamp with michael kors outlet online lofty cheap jerseys ideals bcbg max azria to follow longchamp handbags ... ... ralph lauren the Long March burberry sale has given omega watches people chi flat iron how much polo ralph lauren outlet shock, cheap michael kors how much adidas feeling, it browns nfl jersey makes michael kors bags people not katespade help the ralph lauren revolutionary air max martyrs have charlotte hornets jerseys a barbour outlet online deep coach outlet memory vans And mizuno running reverence. louboutin Although puma online the cheap nike shoes long march san antonio spurs jersey is boston celtics gone, patriots nfl jersey but air jordan retro it air max is dwyane wade jersey not michael kors afraid of hollister co danger, perseverance iphone 5 cases of air max 2015 the dauntless spirit michael kors purses is woolrich mens jackets enough nba jersey to ralph lauren comfort the ethereal ethereal burberry handbags outlet heart. Although not immersive to air max go through prada handbags that true religion jeans women mighty revolutionary michael kors black friday years, ray ban outlet online but nike mercurial also instyler between lunette ray ban the pandora schmuck lines to tory burch shoes read burberry sale the replica rolex long hilfiger outlet march too falcons nfl jersey hard swarovski jewelry and adidas online difficult. mcm bags Yeah! barbour jackets A michael kors lot ray ban sunglasses outlet of nights, coach handbags I cheap true religion have more supra shoes than once to consider to ray bans chew the knicks jersey spirit adidas outlet of the celine black friday Long asics March north face jackets to tommy hilfiger give ralph lauren online me adidas the inspiration nike air huarache and nike.com vibration. burberry The cheap michael kors long march hugo boss clothes is kobe bryant jerseys forging nike air max ahead and roshe letting people never nike air max give ray ban outlet up. pandora jewelry It tells me softball bats that burberry there denver nuggets jersey is burberry outlet online no faith michael kors outlet online sale in burberry outlet store faith prada sunglasses and cowboys nfl jersey a ravens nfl jersey firm nike canada

red bottoms